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Author Topic: Jetta Hybrid  (Read 3211 times)
Lone Fox
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« on: February 02, 2013, 07:06:40 PM »

Does hybrid Jetta make any sense when TDI is so good?

http://web.vw.com/hybrid/jetta/#!/
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Rather B.Blown
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 07:44:22 PM »

Does hybrid Jetta make any sense when TDI is so good?

http://web.vw.com/hybrid/jetta/#!/

I can't see it, if I had to pick one it would definitely be the oil burner.
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Fluxx
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 08:43:22 PM »

I suppose it makes sense from a buisness standpoint as there are no shortage of uneducated people willing to buy something for no reason other than a hybrid badge. I'd rather have the diesel myself.
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Jerrycobra
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 01:00:02 AM »

well some people still look at diesel as a black smoke generator that doesn't really work well at all. I would also opt for a TDI, nothing like going up hills without needing to use a lower gear
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 01:02:01 AM by Jerrycobra » Logged


VTEC_Dreams
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 05:39:52 PM »

Diesel's suck ass to drive in my opinion, but they're better than hybrids.
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03_TrueBlue_GT
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 11:03:54 PM »

Its a marketing scheme thing no doubt. Because for most people that see cars as an appliances and give no more thought into them usually are turned off by the high cost of diesel compared to gas even though the diesels perform better for mpg. There are other excuses as well like noisy engine or lack of speed compared to gas too.
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Oldcarsarecool
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:22:14 PM »

I have a memory of reading a Car & Driver Magazine article several years ago regarding automobile efficiency.  Specifically, the article focused on technology that was actually feasible as opposed to the nonsensical politician talk, (well, nonsensical  is, basically, anything  said by any  politician, but you get the idea).  According to the article, the most efficient combination from the ground to the exhaust, (i.e. when taking everything into account as far as finding, obtaining, and manufacturing fuel, as well as what the car does with it), is a diesel hybrid.  Fuel cells may be more efficient on the operation side of things.  But, the hoops one must jump through to obtain hydrogen makes them among the least efficient alternatives.  Fully electric vehicles also didn't fare too well, and won't until something really significant happens with battery technology.

So, I find it interesting that VW isn't using a diesel for this hybrid.  I can only guess that a) GM permanently screwed up any positive image people on this side of the pond have of the diesel engine in a passenger car application, and b) the said people on this side of the pond are idiots for choosing not to see what the modern diesel has evolved into .  .  .
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 11:24:06 PM by Oldcarsarecool » Logged

Lone Fox
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 03:47:03 AM »

...

So, I find it interesting that VW isn't using a diesel for this hybrid.  I can only guess that a) GM permanently screwed up any positive image people on this side of the pond have of the diesel engine in a passenger car application, and b) the said people on this side of the pond are idiots for choosing not to see what the modern diesel has evolved into .  .  .

Diesel hybrid sounds interesting then I remembered reading an article on a blog somewhere out their in the lands of the internet.

1) Cost
Diesel engines are as you know more expensive to manufacture. Add that cost along with a battery pack, power pack, and electric-motor that a hybrid brings... hybrids themselves carry a price increase. Add the two pricey options together, and you have one expensive powertrain. I think Mercedes has a diesel-hybrid, but that's Mercedes

2) Torque Curve
The blog I am talking about was written and edited by an engineer, so I can't really recall or understand all the technical explanations he was talking about, but I do recall...

Atkinson Cycle. The majority of gas engines run on Otto Cycle, but hybrids use engines specifically tuned to run Atkinson cycle. This more effcient tuning gives them more power output at the top of their range, but little torque at lower speeds; hybrid electric motors develop peak torque at 0 RPM, so this effectively compensates for the gutless gas engine until it gets up to speed.

Diesel engines, as we all know, have low down torque; a diesel hybrid having boatloads of torque off the line may sound good on paper, but this requires some type of extensive gearing for higher efficient speeds (again... I wish I could find this blog/website, because I'm leaving out a lot of technical aspects)

Fun fact: The only gas engine Atkinson powered car that I'm aware of is the Mazda Millenia.

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VR6 Man
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 04:49:09 PM »


Fun fact: The only gas engine Atkinson powered car that I'm aware of is the Mazda Millenia.



The Mazda Millenia actually had a Miller Cycle engine, which is similar to the Atkinson engine, but used a supercharger to make up for the loss of compression.

I never really saw a need for either type of engine though in passenger vehicles.
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Lone Fox
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 10:48:46 PM »

shoot, this whole time I was thinking it was an Atkinson.

...I never really saw a need for either type of engine though in passenger vehicles.

Well, that's just how Mazda rolls... rotary engine, Miller cycle Grin And I'm just now reading that the new skyactiv engine uses a variable cam-timing system that allows the engine to work on the Atkinson-cycle under cruise conditions.

I think its just for more fuel efficiency, combined with the instant torque a hybrid electric motor provides, the "gutlessness" is not as much of a major concern.
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JunkTrader
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 11:04:24 AM »

I suspect it won't be a big seller, I think toyota and honda have the hybrid market

give me a diesel anyday  butt rock
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bowtie
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 05:44:19 PM »

I'll take a European 3000km/tank diesel hybrid
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Lone Fox
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 01:49:23 AM »

I'll take a European 3000km/tank diesel hybrid

so you are willing to pay the price penalty of two expensive "features" (diesel engine and hybrid powertrain) and negligible difference from a petrol hybrid?
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JunkTrader
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 10:55:03 AM »

if you did the math, would it better to buy the cheapest one, and just spend the extra money on fuel? or will the fuel savings offset the additional cost?
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bowtie
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