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Author Topic: 2013 Mustang Unveiled  (Read 7123 times)
Rather B.Blown
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« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2011, 01:19:26 AM »

I really hope Ford made some suspension changes to make that fat pig hook. It's pretty sad when even the current model drops over a full second in the quarter mile when forcing a hook under the car.

The GT500 is a fat pig? What does that make the ZL, considering that it is 300 pounds heavier than the Shelby?

Did you even read the press release of the changes that were made to the '13, or did you just read "650hp"? That might be a good start.

Quote
2013 Ford Shelby GT500 Debuts as Most Powerful Production V8 in the World with 650 Horsepower, Top Speed of 200+ MPH

• New Ford Shelby GT500 is powered by an aluminum 5.8-liter supercharged V8 producing 650 horsepower and 600 lb.-ft. of torque, making it the most powerful production V8 engine in the world

• Nearly every vehicle system has been optimized including powertrain, brakes, gearing and suspension

• New Shelby GT500 sets a performance-driven design standard with new downforce- generating front grilles, aggressive splitter, new quad exhaust system and two new forged-aluminum wheels

• Also new for 2013 is an optional Performance Package with SVT-designed Bilstein electronic adjustable dampers and a Torsen limited-slip differential. The offering can be coupled with a Track Package for all-out racetrack performance

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 15, 2011 – The ultimate Ford Mustang – Shelby GT500 – raises the bar high on performance with the introduction of the new 2013 model that goes on sale next year delivering 650 horsepower and a top speed of more than 200 mph.

"SVT keeps the Shelby GT500 on the cutting edge of technology and takes muscle car performance to new heights," said Jost Capito, director of Global Performance Vehicles and Motorsport Business Development. "We encapsulated every aspect of performance in this car – whether it's 0-60, top speed, racetrack or quarter-mile times. Beyond that, the daily driver also will find this car perfectly fits his or her needs."

The 5.8-liter V8 aluminum-block engine produces 650 horsepower and 600 lb.-ft. of torque, making it the most powerful production V8 in the world. The 3,850-pound car also stays exempt from the gas-guzzler tax.

Nearly every part of the powertrain has been optimized for producing the additional horsepower, including a new supercharger, new cross-drilled block and heads, updated camshaft profiles, a new carbon fiber driveshaft and upgraded clutch, transmission and axle.

A larger, more-efficient supercharger flowing more air through the engine is key to helping produce the massive 650 horsepower. The new TVS series 2300 creates 2.3 liters of displacement and is a unique design to the 5.8-liter engine.

The entire cooling system has been significantly updated on the new 5.8-liter engine. It now includes a larger cooling fan, fan shroud with high-speed pressure-relief doors, a more efficient charge air cooler, a higher-flow intercooler pump and an intercooler heat exchanger with volume increased 36 percent.

Revised gearing

Nearly every gear on the 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 was revised to manage the torque and use more of the power in a way that makes it more driver-friendly. Engineers considered more than 35 gearing combinations, finally deciding on one that delivers less torque all the way through the wheels to the ground and still enables the car to achieve fuel economy targets.

A key piece of the driveline, the six-speed manual transmission, offers upgraded gears, bearings and housing so it can properly manage the torque. The final drive ratio is now 3.31:1 for optimized overall vehicle gearing to complement the massive torque. Every gear besides fourth was optimized for competing performance metrics. The clutch has increased torque and rpm capacity and uses a dual-disc design.

"It might just seem like we're putting a bigger engine into the car. But it's been a balanced approach through and through," said Jamal Hameedi, SVT chief engineer. "We've completely redone the car to be even more sophisticated in terms of handling and control than the prior model."

Other keys for improved traction management include:

• Torsen limited-slip differential: When customers order the optional Performance Package, they will get a Torsen limited-slip differential that helps the rear suspension deliver maximum torque and traction better and longer under track conditions

• Launch control: A new launch control system lets drivers set the desired launch rpm depending on tire temperature, street surface or other conditions. Unique to SVT's launch control is that it is integrated with both the engine control and traction control

• Brembo braking system: A new Brembo brake system offers drivers enhanced stopping power to help keep their car under control, both on the road and the track. New six-piston calipers in front along with larger front and rear rotors help improve brake fade. New brake pads that are more aggressive also help the car achieve high deceleration and further robustness for more driver confidence

Aero advancements

Significant aerodynamic work was done on the new Shelby GT500 to ensure the car has proper downforce for optimum performance at all speeds. Engineers were able to determine how to harness the air that was moving around and through the car to improve the cooling system, maximize downforce and minimize drag.

The front fascia and splitters were modified to handle the extreme loads at 200 mph, resulting in a car that tracks more securely and feels more planted to the road at higher speeds. It offers 33 percent more effective aero loading at 160 mph compared to the 2011 model.

Superior ride

The new Shelby GT500's driving dynamics have been improved, now working in concert with all the new content on the car.

Handling, all AdvanceTrac settings and steering assist levels within selectable steering have been tuned to account for the updated content. The previously available unique traction control system and electronic stability control settings help drivers achieve maximum performance on both the street and the track.

Both systems can be completely disabled in controlled track situations where maximum driver skill is utilized, or fully engaged for maximum safety during normal driving or in less-than-ideal traction conditions. Intermediate sport mode allows drivers to push their cars hard at the track without completely disabling the safety systems, permitting more aggressive driving before the traction control and electronic stability control intervene.

"We took a completely different approach with this car so drivers can choose their settings instead of a computer making the selection," Hameedi said. "Nearly every system the driver interacts with can be tailored to his or her situation including the Bilstein electronic adjustable suspension, launch control, AdvanceTrac and steering assist levels."

The 2013 Shelby GT500 offers two new sets of forged-aluminum wheels including a unique wheel for cars with the optional packages. The 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels are coupled with Goodyear Eagle® F1 SuperCar G: 2 tires on all vehicle configurations.

Taking it one step further

Sometimes Ford Shelby GT500 customers want to enjoy their car on surface streets. Other times they just want to let loose on the track. Two new optional packages on the 2013 model give them the choice.

Available as part of the optional Performance Package, SVT-designed Bilstein electronic adjustable dampers are accessed on the dash with a simple push of a button. Normal mode gives customers a more comfortable ride over road irregularities. Sport mode is all about performance, delivering improved response time on the track and less body roll while cornering and pitch under braking. The Torsen limited-slip differential also comes with the Performance Package.

"The adjustable shocks let us develop our car on the track without any compromise," said Kerry Baldori, Ford SVT Global Performance Vehicles chief engineer. "Before, we had to tune the car with street implications in mind. Now we can go as extreme as we want on the track setting and still offer the customer a comfortable ride on the road."

Enthusiasts can upgrade their Performance Package with an additional Track Package for all-out performance. The option comes with an external engine oil cooler, rear differential cooler and transmission cooler for further durability. The coolers play an essential role in preventing crucial components from overheating under high-speed conditions.
The 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 will be built at AutoAlliance International Plant in Flat Rock, Mich.

 

550hp was already exceeding the limits of what the GT500's platform could handle on out-of-the-box factory tires. What do you think an extra 100hp will do? It's not like Ford can offer a factory "Racing Tire Package".


And what is the Camaro platform designed to handle, considering the platform is based on a 10 year old sedan from Australia that is mostly V-6 people movers?

The ZL1 had definitely far surpassed each and every current GT500 performance number (i have a sauce thats legit). Ford knew the ZL1 was going to kill the GT500 and this was the answer. I call it the Fuck You ZL1 package because the only reason this car is what it is now is to beat the ZL1. THE ONLY REASON. GM challenged Ford to a ZL1 - GT500 battle on the 'ring. GM picks a driver, Ford picks a driver, and both cars go run the best lap they can. Ford declined. Although C&D should be doing that battle on VIR in the next Lightning Lap anyway.

How has it surpassed every GT500 performance number when the car doesn't even exist yet? Oh, you have a legit source (isn't the internet a wonderful thing, everything a fanboy posts on a Camaro website is obviously true). Why did they wait until winter in Germany to throw down the gauntlet (if that is true at all, that came from Jalopnik after all) how about a lap around Laguna Seca? Hell, how about the ZL1 against the current Boss 302 LS around Laguna?

For that matter, the "ring" times are nothing but an unverifiable pissing match. Suddenly, "ring" times are the holy grail to internet fanboys. 5 years ago very few people in America even knew what the "ring" was. Along came internet forums and video games, and suddenly it is the end all be all of performance measures (especially for teens that don't even have a license and hang out in their mom's basement) .  All of the "ring" times that come out are heavily disputable. GTR, Viper, Porsche, etc. Nobody knows the variables or the timing segments that were used. All of them seem to come from factory drivers with factory timer with no details about the cars. The pics I saw of the ZL1 had a roll cage and 000 treadwear rating racing semi-slick tires. Who knows what the actual times were or the equipment used since there is basically no official timing other than what the manufacturer comes up with.  How many of the Mustangs and Camaros produced do you think will ever see the "ring" (or any road course for that matter)? I'd wager less than 1%, (probably more for the Mustang, since the Boss is blistering road courses, and leaving Camaros in the weeds). Ask an M3 owner how confident he is when facing a Boss on a road course, haha.

At this point, any comparison between the ZL1 and the GT500 is nothing but pure speculation since neither one of the cars is on the showroom floor yet. I'm basing my speculation on the numbers and the information that has been released so far. It can go either way, but on paper as of now, the GT500 takes the top spot. But that is on paper and nothing is for sure on either contender. We'll have to wait until the rubber hits the road, and they both are tested by independent sources to know for sure. No doubt that they will both be awesome cars that anyone would be proud to own, and they will both have capabilities far beyond what 95% of the owners will ever achieve or need. 

One thing that is for sure right now though, based on hard data, is that the Camaro is trailing the Mustang in performance. On acceleration, on the drag strip, in braking, on the road course, in all out grip, etc. etc. be it the GT, the Boss, and the GT500. All of that could change when the ZL1 comes out, but until then, its all speculation. This no handling "fat pig" of mine pulls over 1.0g on the skid pad, I'd say that is some serious grip for a live axle pony car. None of the others ever comes close, even with their "superior" IRS.




50 million invested in a plant for a motor that will be put in 7000 cars and be dead. That's just is the plant, that doesn't even count the development cost of the lame duck (not as in lame engine but as in end date set shortly after start date) engine. The car will make not one bit of financial sense. It is truely a fuck you ZL1 package.

i personally wished they did a ecoboost 5.0L, since the 5.0 is a better platform.

As a large stockholder in Ford, I don't mind at all if they spend money on a car that brings media attention to the brand (which it has, have you seen the coverage it has gotten in the last few days? The ZL1 has gotten virtually none). In fact I encourage it. It gets people into the showroom whether they can afford the GT500 or not, they're attracted to the attention that the car gets, and in turn will buy what they can afford.

But hey, at least they are spending their own money instead of taxpayer's money in the form of bailouts. If GMs products and business model was so great, they wouldn't have had to have the government bail them out of bankruptcy (which we are still on the hook for, and will be for years to come) Hell, they should be able to make some bad ass cars and show a profit, if someone gave me 55 billion dollars, I'm sure I could show a positive balance sheet too.  

« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 01:58:32 AM by Rather B.Blown » Logged



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« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2011, 01:31:45 AM »

 
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« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2011, 05:56:46 AM »

I think the GTR draws the largest group if idiot followers. It is hailed as supercar beating performance at a budget price. Many of the younger generation do not remember the same claims being made back in the 90s about the Twin turbo 300ZX. In my mind that was the single most disappointing car I ever owned. Build quality was abysmal. Sure, it was fast...it was fast leaving the mechanic shop. Sometimes it was even fast going back to the shop, but that depended on the engine in the tow truck.
The computers in the GTR's lead people to believe that they can buy control. They think that with purchase of the car, they are ready to go see low lap times at a race track. it is not true, but how do you convince someone who wants to believe that?

To be fair to the GTR, it actually IS impressive, and does so what it says by being near supercar in numbers terms, for a quite low price? (its closest "natural" competitor I'd say is the Porsche 997 Turbo S, and it costs a lot more, and still isn't quite good enough to better the GTR.  I'm a Porsche rather than Nissan fanboy too!).
But yeah, it does have a few idiot followers.  My gripe with them and the other fanboys is that they think being 0.2 of a sec quicker on the quarter (which itself is a pretty dumb race anyway for a road car, really) makes one "shit" and the other "great", or a few secs quicker around a track, same deal.  Totally ignoring other factors that make up a car, some of which can't even be measured subjectively...
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« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2011, 10:10:05 AM »


I read this whole thread and what RBB said about the Corvette being in a different class as the GT500 is true.  How is anybody going to compare those two cars and be legit.  It aint possible.  You got 2 totally different drive trains and class of cars.  The Mustang is NOT an all out Supercar BUT a PONY CAR.  Just like the Camaro is.  If you want to compare the Corvette to anything then compare it to the GT500 Super Snake.  Even then the Corvette wont stand a chance.
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« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2011, 12:00:12 PM »

I disagree. If your compairing the vette to anything ford it has to be the ford gt40
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« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2011, 02:09:58 PM »

The GT500 is a fat pig? What does that make the ZL, considering that it is 300 pounds heavier than the Shelby?

Did you even read the press release of the changes that were made to the '13, or did you just read "650hp"? That might be a good start.

 
And what is the Camaro platform designed to handle, considering the platform is based on a 10 year old sedan from Australia that is mostly V-6 people movers?

How has it surpassed every GT500 performance number when the car doesn't even exist yet? Oh, you have a legit source (isn't the internet a wonderful thing, everything a fanboy posts on a Camaro website is obviously true). Why did they wait until winter in Germany to throw down the gauntlet (if that is true at all, that came from Jalopnik after all) how about a lap around Laguna Seca? Hell, how about the ZL1 against the current Boss 302 LS around Laguna?

For that matter, the "ring" times are nothing but an unverifiable pissing match. Suddenly, "ring" times are the holy grail to internet fanboys. 5 years ago very few people in America even knew what the "ring" was. Along came internet forums and video games, and suddenly it is the end all be all of performance measures (especially for teens that don't even have a license and hang out in their mom's basement) .  All of the "ring" times that come out are heavily disputable. GTR, Viper, Porsche, etc. Nobody knows the variables or the timing segments that were used. All of them seem to come from factory drivers with factory timer with no details about the cars. The pics I saw of the ZL1 had a roll cage and 000 treadwear rating racing semi-slick tires. Who knows what the actual times were or the equipment used since there is basically no official timing other than what the manufacturer comes up with.  How many of the Mustangs and Camaros produced do you think will ever see the "ring" (or any road course for that matter)? I'd wager less than 1%, (probably more for the Mustang, since the Boss is blistering road courses, and leaving Camaros in the weeds). Ask an M3 owner how confident he is when facing a Boss on a road course, haha.

At this point, any comparison between the ZL1 and the GT500 is nothing but pure speculation since neither one of the cars is on the showroom floor yet. I'm basing my speculation on the numbers and the information that has been released so far. It can go either way, but on paper as of now, the GT500 takes the top spot. But that is on paper and nothing is for sure on either contender. We'll have to wait until the rubber hits the road, and they both are tested by independent sources to know for sure. No doubt that they will both be awesome cars that anyone would be proud to own, and they will both have capabilities far beyond what 95% of the owners will ever achieve or need. 

One thing that is for sure right now though, based on hard data, is that the Camaro is trailing the Mustang in performance. On acceleration, on the drag strip, in braking, on the road course, in all out grip, etc. etc. be it the GT, the Boss, and the GT500. All of that could change when the ZL1 comes out, but until then, its all speculation. This no handling "fat pig" of mine pulls over 1.0g on the skid pad, I'd say that is some serious grip for a live axle pony car. None of the others ever comes close, even with their "superior" IRS.




As a large stockholder in Ford, I don't mind at all if they spend money on a car that brings media attention to the brand (which it has, have you seen the coverage it has gotten in the last few days? The ZL1 has gotten virtually none). In fact I encourage it. It gets people into the showroom whether they can afford the GT500 or not, they're attracted to the attention that the car gets, and in turn will buy what they can afford.

But hey, at least they are spending their own money instead of taxpayer's money in the form of bailouts. If GMs products and business model was so great, they wouldn't have had to have the government bail them out of bankruptcy (which we are still on the hook for, and will be for years to come) Hell, they should be able to make some bad ass cars and show a profit, if someone gave me 55 billion dollars, I'm sure I could show a positive balance sheet too.  



there is a reason that Ford had 155mph limiters on previous GT500's and doubt they would let the 2013 leave unlimited. So what it coulda, woulda, shoulda do for a top speed on paper means nothing.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182476

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Rather B.Blown
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« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2011, 04:11:49 PM »

there is a reason that Ford had 155mph limiters on previous GT500's and doubt they would let the 2013 leave unlimited. So what it coulda, woulda, shoulda do for a top speed on paper means nothing.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182476



Well what is the reason Mercedes and so many other manufacturers have 155 mph limiters on their cars?   

According to Ford its not going to be limited, they even made it a point to discuss the aero tweaks they made. They've already done high speed testing and observed 30% more downforce at 160 mph. They also added this....





But like the ZL1, we'll have to wait and see what happens when they finally hit the streets.








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« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 04:13:38 PM by Rather B.Blown » Logged



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« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2011, 06:04:36 PM »

Dear God!!  Embarrassed

Is the TVS R2300 the same used in the ZR1?
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« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2011, 01:29:19 AM »

I disagree. If your compairing the vette to anything ford it has to be the ford gt40

I do agree with you on that aspect.  If comparing a Corvette to  Ford than yes it should be a GT40.  BUT since they want to compare it to a Mustang then they need to be comparing it to the GT500 Super Snake.
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« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2011, 08:25:34 AM »

Quote from: Rather B.Blown
Well what is the reason Mercedes and so many other manufacturers have 155 mph limiters on their cars?  

I've never heard a definite answer, but it goes from "gentleman's agreement" to "to keep tyre prices from being insane".  I think the former is wrong, 'cos Jaguar does it, and they're not German.  The latter is more believable, since those are some heavy cars, doing huge speed carrying that weight would put those tyres under a lot of stress, so if they keep it to 155mph they, in theory, can make tyres that will work to that speed and be "approved fitment" etc., but not cost the earth.  Porsche and special versions of the normally 155mph limited cars can go higher, but being "enthusiast" cars, the owners of those will presumably be OK with paying through the nose for tyres (again, in theory) that are rated at 180mph or whatever.  Now that I think about it a bit more, it probably makes it easier for a lot of the development of each car if they have "max speed: 155mph" in the design criteria, for stuff like brakes, hubs, bearings, aero design, etc.  If an S-Class was designed to sustain 200mph, it'd probably cost a lot more to build (though it's hardly cheap anyway!)

There is also probably some "common sense" element to it too I'd think, since it is *mostly* the Germans that do it.  Some of their roads are unlimited, but actually allowing the cars to also be unlimited would probably be less good (not to say that they're crap drivers or anything, autobahns are meant to be some of the safest roads in the world.  Statistically.  But we all know what they say about "statistics"...).  Also for the image of the cars themselves.  If someone crashed doing a megaspeed in their BMW, it'd make their cars look unsafe...

EDIT: To say that since this new 650bhp Mustang is gonna be something special, probably with a thorough re-engineering programme (I'd hope so, with that kinda poke!), I think it's entirely possible it'll have no speed limiter...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 08:30:01 AM by UKV6 » Logged
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« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2011, 08:43:51 AM »

Ah i got ya now. Ya that would make sense.
I do agree with you on that aspect.  If comparing a Corvette to  Ford than yes it should be a GT40.  BUT since they want to compare it to a Mustang then they need to be comparing it to the GT500 Super Snake.
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« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2011, 08:52:37 PM »

I've never heard a definite answer, but it goes from "gentleman's agreement" to "to keep tyre prices from being insane".  I think the former is wrong, 'cos Jaguar does it, and they're not German.  The latter is more believable, since those are some heavy cars, doing huge speed carrying that weight would put those tyres under a lot of stress, so if they keep it to 155mph they, in theory, can make tyres that will work to that speed and be "approved fitment" etc., but not cost the earth.  Porsche and special versions of the normally 155mph limited cars can go higher, but being "enthusiast" cars, the owners of those will presumably be OK with paying through the nose for tyres (again, in theory) that are rated at 180mph or whatever.  Now that I think about it a bit more, it probably makes it easier for a lot of the development of each car if they have "max speed: 155mph" in the design criteria, for stuff like brakes, hubs, bearings, aero design, etc.  If an S-Class was designed to sustain 200mph, it'd probably cost a lot more to build (though it's hardly cheap anyway!)

There is also probably some "common sense" element to it too I'd think, since it is *mostly* the Germans that do it.  Some of their roads are unlimited, but actually allowing the cars to also be unlimited would probably be less good (not to say that they're crap drivers or anything, autobahns are meant to be some of the safest roads in the world.  Statistically.  But we all know what they say about "statistics"...).  Also for the image of the cars themselves.  If someone crashed doing a megaspeed in their BMW, it'd make their cars look unsafe...

EDIT: To say that since this new 650bhp Mustang is gonna be something special, probably with a thorough re-engineering programme (I'd hope so, with that kinda poke!), I think it's entirely possible it'll have no speed limiter...

I've never heard a definite answer, but it goes from "gentleman's agreement" to "to keep tyre prices from being insane".  I think the former is wrong, 'cos Jaguar does it, and they're not German.  The latter is more believable, since those are some heavy cars, doing huge speed carrying that weight would put those tyres under a lot of stress, so if they keep it to 155mph they, in theory, can make tyres that will work to that speed and be "approved fitment" etc., but not cost the earth.  Porsche and special versions of the normally 155mph limited cars can go higher, but being "enthusiast" cars, the owners of those will presumably be OK with paying through the nose for tyres (again, in theory) that are rated at 180mph or whatever.  Now that I think about it a bit more, it probably makes it easier for a lot of the development of each car if they have "max speed: 155mph" in the design criteria, for stuff like brakes, hubs, bearings, aero design, etc.  If an S-Class was designed to sustain 200mph, it'd probably cost a lot more to build (though it's hardly cheap anyway!)


I've never heard a definite answer, but it goes from "gentleman's agreement" to "to keep tyre prices from being insane".  

but it goes from "gentleman's agreement" to "to keep tyre prices from being insane".  

"to keep tyre prices from being insane".  

keep tyre prices

tyre prices

tyre  


tyre  


tyre  


tire  
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 04:09:52 PM by Imran » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2011, 08:54:32 PM »

I think the 155 has to do with Insurance as well.
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« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2011, 08:57:25 PM »

Maybe he was tyred?  Either way, both are correct.
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« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2011, 12:10:30 AM »

Maybe he was tyred?  Either way, both are correct.


I know, but the Merrcan way is correcter
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