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Author Topic: A gun question  (Read 1475 times)
LSixer
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« on: May 15, 2009, 08:48:04 AM »

I was going to place this in the lounge, but, lately the lounge seems to be bypassed.

So here it is, and I suppose I am kind of directing this to Lee, but, anyone with information please feel free to speak up.

What pistol would be most likely to stop a full size grizzly in his tracks at short range in an emergency. I am thinking of some travels to places with family unit where one MAY be encountered. I will not be hunting, just want to know that if I run accross old boy on his turf, I want to make sure that me & the family are the victors in our egress.

My current choices:

1911 .45 - Also, what load would you recommend?
357 magnum - again, what load.

Also, would it be better to bite the bullet and get a .44 mag? I dont have one, but, I suppose if it makes THAT much of a difference, a good insurance policy is the best plan.

Discuss.
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heretic
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2009, 09:38:27 AM »

the colt .45 ACP does not have the penetration to stop a bear. It is a great round, and I even have a colt Commander in the left sidecover of my bike. This is just not what it was designed for..357 is not my favorite magnum. I have a dan Wesson with an 8 3/4 inch bull barrel, and a herters scope on it, but that is really only a competition silhouette gun. I think if you can handle the .357, then why not step up to the .44? it can be loaded down down for target shooting, but when loaded hot, has more impact energy at 100 yards than a regular .357 does at the muzzle. For a backup when bear hunting, I carry a S&W 629 Mountain Gun. It is a short (4 inch barrel) .44, made for backpackers in bear country. It is a gun that will be carried a lot, and shot little if you have hot loads, and the recoil really is nasty when I have "bear" loads in it. For plinking .44 special loads tame it enough that a woman can shoot it
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LSixer
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2009, 09:51:40 AM »

Well, I am not much into target shooting, I was somewhat in the past, just not so much anymore. Hobbies and interest changes over time I suppose.

So, the 44 mag shorty is a good choice for close range security then is it? I suppose the key here is what will stop the bastard quickly in a pinch, where I may have only one round to stop it, maybe two if the first one slows him a bit. This is not a gun that will get much action (pray to God), just an insurance policy.

Any ideas on where to find one for a good price? I dont think I make a trip to CA for a pistol, are there any internet retailers? Hell, for that matter, Im not even sure you can purchase a gun over the web. Never tried.
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Fox
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2009, 04:53:42 PM »

Bears have thick meat! They say no hand guns will stop a bear with any guarantee; powerful hand guns will not stop a bear with one shot but they have fierce recoil!

Such as a .500 Smith and Wesson pistol; I’ve never fired such a hand gun, only a NATO M9 9mm.

I hear good things about bear pepper spray. If a handgun cannot even stop a aggressive bear, then maybe pepper spray is a good side-carry.

Also, if you shoot a bear dead in Alaska, you are required to skin it... may be a bit nasty  Are you hiking in Alaska?

How about a M203 grenade launcher that attaches to a number of popular assault rifles?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 05:13:02 PM by Fox » Logged
clutch
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2009, 12:08:27 AM »

Just bring this picture:



If its a Republican bear, it will run away scared for its life.

 Grin
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heretic
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 01:19:47 AM »

Well, I am not much into target shooting, I was somewhat in the past, just not so much anymore. Hobbies and interest changes over time I suppose.

So, the 44 mag shorty is a good choice for close range security then is it? I suppose the key here is what will stop the bastard quickly in a pinch, where I may have only one round to stop it, maybe two if the first one slows him a bit. This is not a gun that will get much action (pray to God), just an insurance policy.

Any ideas on where to find one for a good price? I dont think I make a trip to CA for a pistol, are there any internet retailers? Hell, for that matter, Im not even sure you can purchase a gun over the web. Never tried.

.44 mag loads can really push out a lot of power. With a 300 grain bullet, they can deliver over a linear ton of impact energy. most people are told not to use a handgun for bear, but that is because most people cannot handle it and still place a shot if they are faced with the need. A .44 can break through a bear's skull like a .22 through a tin soup can.
There are larger handgun calibers, but the ammo is not as readily available. .44 is a very common round, so is available almost anywhere. I do not know if you can buy a gun on the web, and I had forgotten where you live. I know the lawmakers made it difficult to buy personal protection handguns when he was still just a senator in your state



and in response to Clutch's pic.....I have never seen a bear that ran from a donkey
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 01:22:17 AM by heretic » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 12:11:09 PM »

and in response to Clutch's pic.....I have never seen a bear that ran from a donkey

Haha! Nice one.

I do believe you can order guns over the internet, you just have to pick them up at a local gun store. I am not sure on teh details, but I think my cousin might have done this with his AR-15.

Also, I have shot a .44 Mag only once, but to me it seems like the best option for a bear stopping handgun. I have only shot a few handguns, so I am no expert, but when I shot the .44 Mag it was not hard to shoot at all, heavy, but it felt good. I think it was a Red Hawk .44 Mag.

Also, I know this might be a bit of a stupid gun to suggest since its mainly for target shooting, but what about a .50 Desert Eagle? They arent cheap, but I would think they'd have the stopping power.
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heretic
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 07:53:57 PM »

the reason I never suggest the .50 desert eagle is that ammo is not as readily available as the .44
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LSixer
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2009, 01:54:32 PM »

Thank you for all the suggestions and advice. I may just go with the 44, I was hoping to avoid another purchase but for the family sake, insurance can be a life saver. I was thinking about some travels to NW state parks, and while I know bears are rare and there are strick laws as to shooting animals, I do not plan to do so unless it it the animal or me (or my family). If I get in trouble, they can sue me. The trip may include a canadian adventure as well, you just never know. I had read through some travel logs about hikers worried about said large aggresive animals and I am just not one to take chances.

When I was in the service and traveled to far away Central American jungles for some training, some of friends would ask me how we could stand traveling in those places with banditos and dangerous wild life. The short answer is if you are armed and trained properly, there is nothing to worry about except some types of snakes when you bed down. But then early pioneers did it with far less training and weaponry so there are times when you just grow a pair and deal with it.
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2009, 02:09:56 PM »

the reason I never suggest the .50 desert eagle is that ammo is not as readily available as the .44

Whats the average price for a .50 round for the Desert Eagle? Aren't .44 rounds around $1? I know price depends on the type of round, but just as an estimate.
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LSixer
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2009, 02:26:26 PM »

I may be wrong, but a year or two ago my dad and I were looking at the possibility of a .50 cal rifle. We soon gave up on that because despite the fact that we can and do shoot in our yard, I quickly decided that shooting something like that in my area is just too dangerous. It also makes a crappy self defence weapon inside or outside without running the risk of hitting a neighbor because of the enormous range of those rounds. Also, I heard that .50 rifle round were about $20 a pop. I may have heard wrong, but, I dont like those rifles THAT damn much.

So a buck or two a round for a 44 is doable for me. I wont be blasting of dozens of rounds at the shooting range, just a couple to get the feel for it. My 357 with a good size grain has little or no recoil for my anyway, neither does the .45. But, I am a big guy and still have good arm/hand strength. That said, a fully charged 44 with a large grain load should be too much of an issue.

You have to keep in mind, adrenilin. Having a bear coming at you will give me enough of a boost that I could possibly hold a good .50 cal machine gun at the waist and not have an issue!! lmao
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2009, 05:25:46 PM »

for me, the .44 recoil is more manageable than the .357. The ,357 is a sharper snap, while the .44 is a huge push
 If you can handle the .357, you can just as easily handle all but the hottest of .44 rounds.

For bear, have someone load you some 300 grain soft nose lead bullets. Stay away from the jacketed loads. You need penetration not expansion. This will give you less velocity, but for close range will give more knockdown for a heavily muscled animal
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2009, 11:21:55 PM »

I may be wrong, but a year or two ago my dad and I were looking at the possibility of a .50 cal rifle. We soon gave up on that because despite the fact that we can and do shoot in our yard, I quickly decided that shooting something like that in my area is just too dangerous. It also makes a crappy self defence weapon inside or outside without running the risk of hitting a neighbor because of the enormous range of those rounds. Also, I heard that .50 rifle round were about $20 a pop. I may have heard wrong, but, I dont like those rifles THAT damn much.

So a buck or two a round for a 44 is doable for me. I wont be blasting of dozens of rounds at the shooting range, just a couple to get the feel for it. My 357 with a good size grain has little or no recoil for my anyway, neither does the .45. But, I am a big guy and still have good arm/hand strength. That said, a fully charged 44 with a large grain load should be too much of an issue.

You have to keep in mind, adrenilin. Having a bear coming at you will give me enough of a boost that I could possibly hold a good .50 cal machine gun at the waist and not have an issue!! lmao

A friend of my dad recently bought a Barrett BMG .50 cal sniper rifle. It weighs a ton, you could not stand there and shoulder it and aim at something. You basically have to use a bi-pod or rest it on something. He said he wanted to try taking it out to hunt deer. I dont know if he ever did, but with this guy, I wouldnt doubt it.
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 08:52:34 PM »

Forgive me since I have not read the thread but...

I would recommend two loads against bears. If you prefer revolvers the .44 Mag, if you prefer automatic handguns then use the 10MM auto.

The .45ACP is too slow to penetrate, and I would not trust a .357 Mag in the least with a bear.

I like the Smith And Wesson 329PD to carry when hiking, it's very light and is not noticeable but with a large enough barrel to remain decently accurate. The other choice I would use is the Glock 20, it's cheaper and you get a full magazine to correct for a miss.
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heretic
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 10:53:20 PM »

Forgive me since I have not read the thread but...

I would recommend two loads against bears. If you prefer revolvers the .44 Mag, if you prefer automatic handguns then use the 10MM auto.

The .45ACP is too slow to penetrate, and I would not trust a .357 Mag in the least with a bear.

I like the Smith And Wesson 329PD to carry when hiking, it's very light and is not noticeable but with a large enough barrel to remain decently accurate. The other choice I would use is the Glock 20, it's cheaper and you get a full magazine to correct for a miss.

remember bud, left handed here......I do not like most autos. 
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